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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    8

    Default Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    I have purchased the Rail Simple railing kits for my patio. They did not come with posts, so I went to Lowes and purchased some notched 4x4's ready to be installed. My plan was to use 3 or 4 Tapcon concrete screws to mount these posts to the side of my patio. Is this enough to hold them, or should I use concrete anchors? I'm getting advice that the Tapcon's would do fine if force was generated from the bottom, but they would no where near hold the force of someone leaning on the rail. I'm assuming that I will need to anchor these posts to the floor of my patio, so if that is the case, what is my best option/product for doing this. I'd rather not see too much of the sleeve around the base of the 4x4 if possible.

    Check out the picture of my patio for reference.

    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...1/IMG_1129.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calif.
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    Titan anchors.
    Mark
    Los Gatos, CA.
    [url]www.creative-redwood-designs.com[/url]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    my experience with Tapcons is they are very particular about having an exact hole. When drilling if you hit a piece of aggregate the pit wanders a little and the hole gets enlarged slightly and then the tapcons holding power is reduced. Even a drill with a slight runout can cause a too large hole and lead to issues.

    So no, don't use tapcons in this situation. Anchors for sure. You could also epoxy some galvanized threaded rod into a hole and then just bolt the posts.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    Thanks for the replies. The main thing I am trying to determine is if I still use the notched wood posts and only attach them to the side of my patio, will using anchors in to the side of the concrete patio be enough to hold the posts in place. I imagine it would still take a good amount of force to break off one of those posts if it is anchored instead of just using the tapcons.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calif.
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    First off, never notch 4x4 railing posts. If you do, you have just turned your post into a 2x4 or ?

    Railings are huge safety issues, No one here is probably going to tell you exactly how to anchor your posts to the sides of the concrete, because all the methods require precise directions that may not be followed correctly. For instance, Brik mentioned epoxying threaded rod. Yes, that could work, but, if you don't clean the holes out properly, the epoxy won't hold to capacity. Or if you drill and hit rebar, you may not get the required depth.

    You might consider contacting a engineer, in this situation.
    Mark
    Los Gatos, CA.
    [url]www.creative-redwood-designs.com[/url]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    OK, so let's say I don't notch the 4x4's. Can I still install them on the side of my patio?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calif.
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    Certainly, but not with Tapcons or even wedge bolts. Rod should probably epoxied in, Check with a engineer for specs.
    Mark
    Los Gatos, CA.
    [url]www.creative-redwood-designs.com[/url]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    So why is it that HD and Lowe's both sell notched 4x4 deck posts when it sounds like they are not structurally sound at all? We want to maximize the amount of space we can have on our patio, but I'm afraid if I mount the 4x4 to the side of the patio, when we put the rails on, they will be too far out from the edge?

    What if I used 6x6 posts and notched those? Just throwing out suggestions here.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calif.
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    I can't speak for HD or Lowes, but I can guarantee, that if you were having any kind of inspection for railings, a notched 4x4 would fail. A 6x6 maybe. The problem is that with a force applied at the top of the railing, most of the stress is delivered to that corner of the notch.

    We mount railing posts outside of our framework all of the time.
    Mark
    Los Gatos, CA.
    [url]www.creative-redwood-designs.com[/url]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Installing Notched Wood Posts to Concrete Patio

    Bayn
    [url]http://www.autumnwoodconstruction.com/[/url]

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